Who's Your Diva?

by Eric Peterson

On Tuesday, the POPeration! team kicked off Pride Month with a show all about something very precious in the LGBT community (although admittedly more important to the "G" than perhaps the other letters in our alphabet soup) ... the diva.

(L to R): Barbra Streisand, Diahann Carroll, Liza Minnelli, Rihanna, Margaret Cho, Rita Moreno, & Marilyn Monroe

On the show, I mentioned that a good icebreaker when in the company of a group of gay men you don't know is a quick round of "Who's Your Diva?" - I've done this on several occasions, with old friends and new, and it nearly always works. The reason why a particular diva has stolen the heart of the gay man in front of you nearly always makes for a great story, and the choice itself probably tells you a lot about the guy than you'll ever learn from asking him where he grew up or what he does for a living. I don't know if there's a Buzzfeed quiz about this or not, but there probably should be (in fact, there are probably several).

I should say, right off the bat, that some men refuse to play. These are typically men who have never seen a movie that was made before they were born, and when you ask them what kind of music they like, will say something non-committal like, "whatever's on the radio." We can't change these men; we can only pity them. But for the rest of us, it's a pretty fun game.

When I asked my friend Ric this question, he first scoffed at the notion of choosing only one - but when pressed, he noted that "Eartha Kitt as Catwoman nearly made me straight."

Furthermore, he said that Eartha "personified sensuality, embodied elegance but was a strong woman with simple needs who gave no fucks and maintained her principles and integrity to the end." Indeed, in her heyday, she was often known as much for her fierce activism as her iconic voice and sex appeal. It perhaps should come as no surprise that in addition to being supremely witty and a connoisseur of high fashion, Ric is also someone who follows politics fairly religiously.

My friend Andrew reports that his diva of choice is Annie Lennox. "When she was young," he says, "she had a cool, almost icy persona with which I could relate, along with a soulful vocal style that I really wanted to emulate."

"Perhaps I thought in a subconscious way that being that icy could steel me in the face of being made fun of constantly, which I was," he continued. "But actively, if I thought anything, it was that first, Annie Lennox scared me when I was 10 years old, with her mannish hair and her expressive eyes and intense lyrics like in 'Julia' and 'Somebody Told Me' and 'Love Is a Stranger.' Second, that fear electrified me, and soon I realized that I envied how free she seemed to express herself however she wanted. And third, she and the other new wave and New Romantic performers I listened to ... were a refuge from the outside world. Alone, with no one watching, I could at least carry the fantasy openly that I was as made-up, emotive and talented as they, even if I looked delusional dancing around and singing like that while alone in my room. Most importantly, I just loved her voice. I still do."

I love stories like that. Mostly, I love that when talking about their favorite divas, gay men often start to open up about some of the most vulnerable moments in their life, as Andrew did. Also, I'm reminded of how important these women are to us -- as boys, but also as men. Somehow, these stories make my endless devotion to Liza Minnelli seem less ... trivial. But more about that later.

My friend Howard came of age during the age of disco, and his immediate choice was Donna Summer. "[Those] were the days of discovering (and creating) a gay community, exploring our sexuality, and the last pre-AIDS carefree days for gay men," he said.

As a 46-year old gay man, I never got to know that world. The virus that would eventually be called AIDS was discovered when I was 11, and by the time I was in my mid-teens, AIDS was a household word. When I came out to myself and everyone else in my twenties, I had already known men who had died from the disease, and the first explorations of my own sexuality were always tinged with a fear of getting sick. If I had memories of a simpler time and a diva to embody them, I'd likely cling to that as well.

My Uncle Lee - not related by blood but by choice, agreed that Summer "did almost literally drive us for the better part of a decade ... Disco, and especially 'The Bump' let me have virtual sex with a hundred people without the exchange of ANYTHING." At the same time, Lee's true divas of choice are singers who can touch his soul when he's on his own, in a more contemplative mood ... someone like Carmen McRae.

Like her idol, Billie Holliday, McRae was known as a "song stylist," known for her unique and poignant interpretation of every lyric she sang. Play this game with the right people, and you'll find that there's a whole world of divas beyond Madonna and Lady Gaga.

Not that there's anything wrong with Madonna. She's the go-to diva for many a gay man born on the border between Generation X and the Millennials, and that's also true for my friend Matt.

And you have to admit, Madonna's "Vogue" is a little slice of gay heaven right here on earth. Voguing was a form of dance first popularized by queer men of color in the "ball scenes" of Washington DC and Harlem. That many of her fans had no idea what Madge was singing about in 1990 when this song debuted alongside the release of the Dick Tracy film doesn't matter; her gay fans surely did -- and we loved her for it.

Michael John is another fan of Madonna. She's "someone who has reinvented herself time and time again," he notes. And I think that's important to us gay guys. Nearly all of us have felt like an ugly duckling at some point in our lives, and watching a diva try on one persona after another is perhaps proof that one day, we'll finally be a swan. Furthermore, "she unapologetically pushed the boundaries" in her music and her videos (burning crosses and a black Jesus in "Like a Prayer" come to mind). For a community that feels like our very existence often pushes the boundaries, this is -- for us -- something we admire, not something we shy away from.

Another Matt has an unusual choice for his primary diva -- unusual, that is, unless you know him well. This other Matt is a quiet sort. He'll sit around a table, still nursing his first glass of wine when everyone else is reaching for a new bottle, and he'll barely say a word ... until there's a moment of silence. Suddenly, the most devastatingly witty thing anyone's said all night will effortlessly fall from his lips. And then he'll shrug his shoulders. When I asked him who his favorite diva was, he was predictably succinct in his response. He paused, cocked his head, said "Angela Lansbury," and changed the subject.

Don't laugh. Before Mrs. Potts and Mrs. Fletcher, Lansbury was saucy in Gaslight, horrifying in The Manchurian Candidate, certifiably insane in Sweeney Todd, and every gay boy's ideal guardian angel in Jerry Herman's Mame.

As for my own diva -- I said it on the show, and a few paragraphs north of this one, and will say it to anyone who cares to listen: my gay heart forever belongs to Miss Liza Minnelli.

When I was fifteen or sixteen years old, I discovered Bob Fosse's film version of Cabaret. My father was a Navy officer, and we were stationed overseas at the time, and we had a copy of the movie on VHS. I watched it over, and over, and over again. My father admitted that my devotion to this movie worried him. I suspected that he suspected that I was gay, and I told him he had nothing to worry about. I thought I was being honest.

Part of my fascination with Cabaret had to do with Michael York's character, Brian -- and his crush on Maximillian, played by the very handsome Helmut Greig. When he confessed to a sexual relationship with Max toward the end of the film, it was a devastating moment for me, and remained so -- even after repeated viewings. But that's not what drew me to watch this particular movie again, and again, and again. That impetus was all about Sally Bowles, as portrayed by Liza.

In the film, she's heartbreaking, funny, pathetic, brassy, insecure, desperate to connect while being completely ignorant of how to do so, and driven to be nothing less than her authentic self while not having a clue who that is. In other words, she was a lot like the closeted teenager that I was when I first saw Cabaret. I maintain that it's one of the finest performances in a musical in the history of film, and it deservedly won Minnelli an Oscar in 1972 -- when I was a year old. That it spoke to me fourteen years later, and still speaks to me today, as an out gay man in my forties, is a testament to that performance.

And it's not just about that one film. In the 90's, when she was at the peak of her powers, I saw Liza perform live on three occasions, and they remain some of the most magical show biz memories of my life.

Some people (see what I did there?) see Liza as simply a parody of a gaudier time, and I credit myself with not a little bit of a maturity that these days, I don't try to convince anyone to love Liza as much as I do. Because no one really can, at least not in exactly the same way. Liza Minnelli entered my life, encased in a plastic VHS cassette, when I needed someone to really understand me, at a moment when I didn't really understand myself. And it's entirely possible that that's who Annie Lennox was to Andrew. It's likely that this is what Madonna means to Michael John and Matt no. 1, and what Angela Lansbury means to Matt no. 2. And what Cher means to Sidney, what Sara Bareilles means to Kyle, what Stevie Nicks means to Rob, what Mina means to Larry, what Diana Ross means to Lou, what Lady Gaga means to JJ, what Joan Baez means to Steve, what Barbra Streisand means to Garrick and Brett, and what Bette Midler means to Jon, and what Adele means to John.

If you've got your own answer to "Who's Your Diva," please leave it below or on our Facebook page. Because we truly can't get enough of these stories. Oh, and ... Happy Pride.

An "Unfairest of Them All" Bloglet

This is going to be short and sweet, but ... in our sixth episode, The Unfairest of Them All, we talked a lot about a report from the Women's Media Center and promised a link to it.

So, here you go: click here to access the full report. There's so much amazing stuff here, including:

The only film in the top-grossing
2,500 movies of all time with
100% female dialogue

• How men dominate news coverage
• How more men than women write and direct for TV and film
• How women are sexualized on screen, as compared to men
• How this "female hypersexuality" can be broken down by race/ethnicity
• The percentages of executive producers, producers, editors, and cinematographers who are female (hint: it's a low number)

Also that breakdown of the top 2,500 movies of all time by how many lines are spoken by women and by men can be found here. In addition to that data, this report includes:

• How often women play lead roles
• Percentage of dialogue according to age (for both men and women)
• An analysis of over 30 Disney screenplays, broken down by gender

If you're a feminist, a data nerd, or just a fan of pop culture, this all makes for some fascinating reading. Enjoy - and thanks for listening! A new episode drops every Tuesday, wherever you stream or download your podcasts.

For Some Tests, There's No Easy A

by Stacey Fearheiley

If you listened to this week's POPeration! podcast you know that Eric and I talked about women in pop culture and in media in particular.  The unfairness monetarily and in role availability specifically.  We talked about how there were so many fewer female roles than male and that the quality of those roles was often insulting.  Eric brought up the Bechdel test.

The Bechdel test asks whether a work of fiction features at least two women or girls who talk to each other about something other than a man or boy.  (Thank you, Wikipedia.)  

What we didn't talk about were variations to that "test". In one variation, a comic book writer stated that her "sexy lamp test" was if a sexy lamp could take the place of your female character and the plots still worked, you should probably do another draft. Thus create a better female character. This intrigued me. Can these tests be used in real life; everyday living; in every day situations?

Do I leave a conversation with a girl friend if we're just talking about her husband or boyfriend?   Can I have a discussion with my female HR rep about my male boss and thus fail?  Do I give that colleague who contributes to my brainstorming meeting as much as a chair to the Salvation Army?

As a feminist, I want to be all gung ho about keeping the world as fair and safe for women as it is for men.  I want equality.  The Bechdel "tests" and its derivations, while evolving from the idea helping to that end,  are not perfect.  Indeed they weren't really meant to be.  They were and are created to just hold a mirror up and say, "look where and who we are.  Do we want to change?  Is this ok?  How can we improve?"

But they are being used in a more weighted way.  Critics are right in that "passing" any of these "tests" does not prove quality, or art.  It doesn't quantify a good story or characters.
As a writer and artist, the idea that I must create characters who are equal to each other, in any way, feels stifling.  I resent it.  I should be able to create characters who have the traits and values I want them to have...they may be male, female, gay, straight, black, white, good or bad.  And therein lies the battle.

Now, clearly no one is making film makers or writers put female characters in their pieces...there are too many male/male buddy movies for that to be a thing.  But maybe we do need to let those who DO write female characters have more opportunities.  Thereby more choices for characters to talk about more than men and more plot lines than those driven by men.

Eric and I mentioned Thelma and Louise, from 1991.  But there have been more recent examples. They include the Ghostbusters (2016), Wonder Woman (2017), Table 19 (2017), Bad Moms (2016) and The Girl on the Train (2016).  

This is by no means an extensive list...there are MANY more, but these were hits and/or bigger budget gigs.  These had marketing money spent on them.  And all were clearly female in brand.

These are facts that make me feel better. The wins, if you will...not the losses.

If the Bechdel test, and those like it, do anything, it is to keep us thinking and aware of the inequalities still out there.  Awareness is key.  Admitting there is a problem is the first step.

About that Disclaimer

by Eric Peterson

If you’ve listened to our fourth episode already, you’ll notice that for the first time, it doesn’t begin with a guitar riff and the resonant baritone of Frank DeSando, our editor, mixer, occasional critic, and constant cheerleader.

Instead, I kicked off this episode, with a disclaimer. Specifically, I said exactly this:

Hi, this is Eric, and you’re listening to POPeration!. We’re beginning this week’s podcast with a disclaimer. This episode is all about what happens when actors, directors, and other artists do unsavory things in their personal lives, and how it affects their audiences. One of the people we discuss at length is Casey Affleck, who recently won the Oscar for Best Actor amid allegations of sexual harassment dating back to 2010.

Stacey and I had this conversation about a week before we were ready to publish it. At that time, I was under the impression that Affleck had essentially admitted to some of the allegations made against him. He has not. To be clear, Casey Affleck hasn’t admitted to anything. The lawsuits against him were settled out of court, and he has not specifically confirmed or denied anything he was accused of. I apologize for misspeaking. Enjoy the show.

My words were not lightly chosen. Nor were they “off the cuff,” as is typical for the conversations Stacey and I usually have on our show. They were written in advance, then rewritten, then edited, then perused by Stacey for her agreement. It was the first time we’d noticed we’d gotten something wrong, and wanted to be very clear and intentional about how we admitted that.

It was important to me that I take full responsibility for my mistake. If Casey Affleck ever listens to our conversation (and I realize that he probably wouldn’t want to and therefore won’t), he deserves to have these allegations discussed factually. More importantly, Stacey and I won’t always be perfect, and we wanted to set a template for taking accountability for our errors in a way that was satisfying from an ethical standpoint. We’re really proud of our show thus far, and wanted to remain so.

Try shaving, Casey. Also, try not being so rapey.

So there are things I said in my little disclaimer and things I didn’t say. I said that I got the facts wrong. I said that it was a mistake (i.e., I didn’t know I was mistaken at the time). I offered an apology. What I didn’t say was this: I still believe that Casey Affleck did just about everything that he was accused of doing.

And it’s a long list. Affleck’s two accusers stated that he consistently bragged about his sexual exploits in a way that made them uncomfortable. According to them, he ordered a crew member to take off his pants and show one of the women his penis. One of the women says she was prevented from returning to her hotel room one night because Affleck and Joaquin Phoenix were there, having sex with women (and, by the by, the fact that Affleck was, at the time, married to Phoenix’s sister adds an additional layer of creepy to this story). At one point, Affleck allegedly suggested sharing a hotel room with one of the women, who refused; at that point, Affleck was alleged to use physical intimidation to force her to comply.

Let’s pause for a moment and recognize that yes, this was a movie set, which many of us probably imagine is one big creative playground for adults, and … for these women, it was their workplace. Think about your boss treating a woman who works for him in this way, and ask yourself if that’s remotely okay.

Of course, there was also the incident mentioned on our show, where one of the women alleged that she woke up in the middle of the night to find Affleck in her bed, fondling her from behind. Again, just for full accountability, Affleck never admitted to doing this.

Nevertheless, I believe that it happened, just like I believe everything else in that suit. I can’t prove it; I can’t responsibly discuss it as fact. I regret doing exactly that during our show -- hence the disclaimer. But I can repeat that I believe it as often as I want, and so I’ll do it again: I believe Affleck’s accusers.

A quick review of the Internet Movie Database reveals that one of Affleck’s accusers, a cinematographer, has continued to find work on a number of projects, with four currently in production. The other woman, a producer, has two credits that follow I’m Still Here and hasn’t worked in the film industry since 2012.

This evidence isn’t conclusive, but it does suggest that filing these lawsuits was a big risk for Affleck’s accusers, and that one of them – either by circumstance or by choice – is no longer working. And while some find it feasible, even likely, that for these women, this was just a big money grab from a rich and famous person, the fact is that you can make a lot more money being a successful producer in Hollywood than you can from suing Casey Affleck for sexual harassment (each woman sued for around $2M, and the case was settled for an undisclosed amount, which could very well be less).

Add to this a 2013 study that suggests that 70% of sexual harassment goes unreported, and it’s clear that there are a lot of people out there (mostly women) who will remain silent about sexual misconduct from bosses and colleagues – probably for a host of reasons, but the fear that they’ll be forever known as the woman who sued her boss (and therefore “can’t take a joke” or “hates men” or “is motivated by greed” or “probably asked for it”) is likely chief among them.

When Variety asked Casey Affleck about the lawsuit, he said this: “People say whatever they want. Sometimes it doesn’t matter how you respond ... I guess people think if you’re well-known, it’s perfectly fine to say anything you want. I don’t know why that is. But it shouldn’t be, because everybody has families and lives.”

It’s an incredibly dismissive comment, one that suggests that these women were just interested in gaining attention, probably motivated by greed and/or jealousy, and that these allegations just fell thoughtlessly out of these women’s mouths, as if the act of recounting these stories wouldn’t be degrading in and of itself. It's almost as if Affleck takes for granted that anyone who would buy a copy of Variety to hear what a movie star has to say about anything would take his word over the idea that the only good reason his accusers would have to sue him would be to see justice done.

Personally,  I find it a lot more believable that Casey Affleck thinks that if you’re not well-known, it’s perfectly fine to do anything you want.

I disagree.

Funny Girls

In our second episode, we decided to talk about one of our favorite forms: comedy. What makes people laugh and why is something of a mystery, but what's clear is that it's not an easy thing to do, by any stretch - and it's our belief that gifted comics deserve a lot more respect than they typically get, especially next to the "tragedians."

One of those serious, serious actors is Meryl Streep - dripping with Academy Award nominations, and winner of three Oscars. Nonetheless, when Stacey asked Eric who makes him laugh, Meryl was the first name he came up with. Meryl does a lot of comedy, up to and including her last nominated turn in Florence Foster Jenkins. But it was her performance in 1990's Postcards from the Edge (written by the ever-hilarious Carrie Fisher) that Eric called to mind first. Admittedly, this isn't the funniest scene in the film, but even when bringing up weighty issues like alcoholism and drug addiction, Carrie throws in a line about Lana Turner and Joan Crawford and you can't help but chuckle. And those are the moments you tend to remember.

When Eric asked Stacey the same question, her ready answer was Carol Burnett. The Carol Burnett Show debuted in 1967 and ran for more than a decade. The humor was often very broad -- most of us remember her riff on Scarlett O'Hara wearing a dress made out of curtains ... with the curtain rod still intact. But sometimes the humor was more subdued, almost absurdist in nature, such as this sketch, featuring the entire ensemble of the show, called "The Butler & the Maid." Hilarious, and also not without something important to say about class, entitlement, domestic violence, and funny stuff like that.

Later in the show, Eric named another one of his favorite funny people: Margaret Cho. Her best work, according to Eric, was the very first of her major stand-up tours, called I'm the One That I Want -- she covers a lot of ground in this show, including the role of women in the lives of gay men, her own bisexuality, addiction, and being a different kind of role model for Asian-Americans. But mostly, this show is about her experiences on the set of All-American Girl, the short-lived sitcom she starred in, how she was directed by the show runners to lose weight to play the part of herself, and how she made herself sick trying. None of that should be funny, and yet it is (also NSFW, just sayin').

Honestly, neither Stacey or Eric set out to exclude men from this list; in fact, they talk about any number of men that they find to be really funny during the show (hint: if you're near New York City, go see Kevin Kline in Present Laughter on Broadway this very minute).

And yet, it's interesting that the first names they thought of were women. It's possible that marginalized people tend to be better observers of themselves and everyone else than those who are in charge. Perhaps we expect women to be "nicer" than men, so when they veer into what's shocking, it's even more shocking ... and maybe a bit funnier.

Who are the women who make you laugh? Let us know in the comments here, talk to us on Facebook, send us a tweet, whatever. We'd love to hear from you. And, y'know ... subscribe (we have to say it; it's a rule).